Structure Fires

It wasn't overlooked. Missionchief Made the call types more specific. Instead of "structure fire" there are commercial building fires, hi-rise fires, and industrial fires.

Houses? We've got basement fires, roof fires, chimney fires, garage fires, room fires. We can only add so many missions at a time, and our focus lately has been around SWAT.

i think it would be better if it said structure fire to begin with then whn your first unit arrives it changes to a roof fire garage fire room fire ect

What about just basics....such as...

Residential Fire

Commercial Fire

Industrial Fire

Residential Highrise Fire

Commercial Highrise Fire

Quote from hawker5

What about just basics....such as...

Residential Fire

Commercial Fire

Industrial Fire

Residential Highrise Fire

Commercial Highrise Fire

This would be nice, although the two kinds of high rise would have the same Alarm assignment in most departments. For example, the call would show up on our screen as residential structure fire, so we'd send our interpretation of a basic first alarm (let's just say 3 engines, 1 ladder, 1 chief) then when the first engine arrived on scene the call would go to room fire, roof fire, grease fire, or even garden shed fire and we could cancel units as needed.

Display More

Surely condensing calls into smaller categories is a backwards step? Top of the request list is more missions and variety, to take the various missions we currently have and wrap them under the same mission name seems odd to me?

I think it'd be expanding. 911 dispatchers don't always have 100% of the information from the initial call. They estimate what they think the appropriate response is and then the first arriving unit gives a scene report that details whether they need to add or subtract units from the run.

I actually like the idea of all fires coming out as "Structure Fires". Once the first unit arrives and determines what it is. Then the call would change to room fire, roof fire, fireplace fire, etc.

Maybe instead of removing and changing names of calls add more calls so that there is more variety

add structure fire and make it so all building related fires come in as that and let it either change to a specific type or stay as a structure fire

Quote from WNYfirefighter

A structure fire is a house though. It's not a business or a industry. Just a house. Typical assignment for a city is 3-4 Engines, 1 Ladder, 1 Heavy Rescue, and 1 Battalion Chief for the 1st Alarm. Adding 3 Engines, 1 Ladder, and 1 Battalion Chief for the 2nd. Plus city departments that have the Air Truck instead of a cascade system on-board another truck have that go on the 1st or 2nd Alarm. More units go for each alarm.

The problem here is I believe you are all thinking fires in houses never get beyond a certain point. However this is not true, even cities have structure fires having an entire house involved, in some cases multiple houses. Room fires are the beginning of a structure fire but a full blown structure fire is when the fire spreads beyond one room. Roof fires, still can't even comprehend that even being real, maybe change roof fire to attic fire so the name makes a little more sense and is believable. And add a good old fashioned structure fire that every dept on Earth goes to every year and several respond to several times per year.

A structure fire can be a house ...

Definition of a structure " something (as a building) that is constructed" - Websters Dictionary

Fire "A state, instance, or process of combustion in which fuel or other material is ignited and combined with oxygen giving off light, heat, and flame."

Thus any fire in any building is a structure fire. IE Garden Shed, Roof, House, Factory, Airport. IE NOT grass fires, wildland fires, trash fires.

You are referring to a Residential structure or house. You also could have Commercial and Industrial Structure fires as well.

Your typical assignments you mention are good when you look at NFPA minimum staffing requirements however look nation wide at how many departments actually achieve the minimum staffing requirements as per NFPA, much lower than what you would expect. Each department is going to send its own response based on resources and personnel available.

You also speak of room and content fires, these fires occur in structures, thus still are categorized as structure fires.

You say you cannot comprehend a roof fire ever being real, I take it you have never been on a lightning strike had power lines down on a roof of a house or been on wildland fires that have caught the shingles of the exterior of a house on fire?

Your name indicates that you are a firefighter somewhere so if that is the case you should know that nothing in the fire service is consistent, everything in the fire service flexes to fit the needs, resources, and abilities of the geographical area. I notice this being an ongoing issue with the suggestions on this forum, everyone wants what "their department" or "their area" does and does not consider that it is done differently elsewhere. For example the department I work on due to our highly limited staffing, does not have a "structure assignment", we use guidelines of what apparatus will respond and who to call for aid when we need it, however the final decision is up to the officer in charge. I think the way mission chief is doing it is just fine, they are simulating what information a caller is giving them and they even have the random chance that the caller is wrong.

Quote from WNYfirefighter

Here, only houses are called structure fires when dispatched. Barn Fires, Garage Fires, Commercial Fires are all separate because the 2nd Alarm is different depending on structure type. My examples were the 2nd and 3rd largest cities in NY which the 3rd has a staffing a 4 per Engine and 5 per Truck, the 2nd largest I believe is 4 and 3. Out here in the rural counties all structure fires are 2nd Alarms at all times of day because all departments are 100% Volunteer and you are lucky to get 6 people on a weekday. Therefore a 2nd Alarm structure fire gets 4-6 departments sen with around 12 apparatus. The alarms vary greatly just in this region of NY.

So your suggestion is basing off your specific region. Missionchief appears to be trying to be as generalized to nation/world wide services as possible. So your suggestion actually limits the flexibility of the game more. You also state that they are assuming that fires never grow yet that is quite the opposite of how the game works. More often than not if I get a chimney fire, it gets upgraded to a roof fire.

Calling it a structure fire is a broad call type that could require 1 engine or 10. And as the current game is set up, you do not get additional details in the call to determine what kind of response you would want to send thus an oven on fire would have to require the same number of apparatus as a fully involved residence on fire. I would not be opposed to the call to be called structure fire if there was additional dispatch given when you open up the dispatch menu that stated more details of what the 911 caller told the dispatcher. But as the current set up is this is not possible.

Also keep mentioning your alarm responses but again not everywhere uses the TEAMS card style response. I can tell you here we do not utilize teams cards, the standard response is sent (which depends on geographical location of the call) and on arrival of the first arriving unit that officer will call for additional units individually as needed, such as dispatch XXX department for engines and manpower or tenders, or ladder truck, what ever they need. So there is no 2nd alarm response that is predetermined as you are talking about.

I would just like to clarify that NFPA minimum is 2 engines and 1 truck and a battalion for residential fires if any department gets caught not complying with NFPA bare minimum response requirements then they would be fined for violation of NFPA regulations just like the city of New Orleans did for not having 4 personal for an engine company, instead they had engine companies made of 3 personal on it and they got caught by NFPA for it and fined for not meeting industry standard for not sending the bare minimum required units to structure fires and for violating both NFPA 1500 and NFPA 1700 for allowing 3 personnal to make up an engine company when NFPA 1500 and NFPA 1700 requires a minimum of 4 personnal to make up an engine company. You can read the response requirements on pages 19-20 on this report issued by IAFF https://www.google.com/url?sa=…g2=miVS3WQQ_WFU5kdpRHJjTA I don't know if this post is revelant or not but the information is there.

Quote from FirefighterChicago

I would just like to clarify that NFPA minimum is 2 engines and 1 truck and a battalion for residential fires if any department gets caught not complying with NFPA bare minimum response requirements then they would be fined for violation of NFPA regulations just like the city of New Orleans did for not having 4 personal for an engine company, instead they had engine companies made of 3 personal on it and they got caught by NFPA for it and fined for not meeting industry standard for not sending the bare minimum required units to structure fires and for violating both NFPA 1500 and NFPA 1700 for allowing 3 personnal to make up an engine company when NFPA 1500 and NFPA 1700 requires a minimum of 4 personnal to make up an engine company. You can read the response requirements on pages 19-20 on this report issued by IAFF https://www.google.com/url?sa=…g2=miVS3WQQ_WFU5kdpRHJjTA I don't know if this post is revelant or not but the information is there.

That article doesn't reflect the NFPA standard at all besides 14 firefighters being required on the fireground. That article is for NOFD and from their IAFF. That article only pertains to the NOFD. There are multiple departments that operate with 3 personnel on Engine Companies. NFPA 1500 (Standard on Fire Department Occupational Safety and Health Program) and 1700 (Guide for Structural Fire Fighting) have nothing to do with fireground minimums. NFPA 1710 (Fireground Staffing Levels for Career Fire Departments) and the forgotten NFPA 1720 (Standard for the Organization and Deployment of Fire Suppression Operations, Emergency Medical Operations, and Special Operations to the Public by Volunteer Fire Departments). 2 Engines and 14 personnel are the minimum for career and 15 if an aerial is being used. 2 Engines with a total of 4 personnel for volunteer/combination departments.

No it doesn't the article directly cites from NFPA so no it's NFPA bare minimum. The article directly states that it is a violation of NFPA 1500 for having an engine company staffed with 3 personnel the industry standard is 4 personnel on a company because it's called the two in and two out rule which is required by OSHA and NFPA (OSHA policy 29 CFR 1910.134(g)(4)(i) and NFPA 1500) so if you're not following both OSHA and NFPA on the two-in-two-out then your department is in serious trouble of getting fined a whole sum of money especially for not following OSHA, OSHA does not take too kindly on workplace violations. I know this because I read the article myself NFPA states it and so it is to be followed any department now following NFPA industry standards is going to get fined for violations. If you would look at the citations that they provide you would know NFPA's guidelines for bare minimums for structure fires.

1 Engine company with 3 personnel isn't going to break the 2 in 2 out rule. You have other companies coming. So, again read the actual standards. If you don't have the standards. I can email them to you. My volunteer department has failed an ISO inspection before for not having 2 engines and 4 personnel on scene in the past. The city adjacent to my volunteer department operates 3 personnel on all their trucks because 2 engines still provide 6 personnel on scene. Therefore, the "two in two out" is still accomplished. Read the standards, not just an article from NOFD's IAFF.