Upgrade The Fire Service To Be More Realistic

    So IRL there are different fire engines for different purposes. my idea is that several vehicles should have special ability's and carry special equipment.

    So here is my idea, add either new vehicles or add upgrades to be purchased for the vehicle.

    Change The Name Of The Water Ladder To Water Ladder + 13.5m

    So this vehicle would carry the 13.5 meter ladder and primarily carries general firefighting Equipment. this responds as a smaller version of an Aerial Appliance and with say 3 or so Water Ladder + 13.5m Fire Engines could sub-in as an Aerial Appliance. Like IRL the 13.5m ladder is only carried on Pump Ladders, however they have a 1,800 Litre Water Tank.

    Add A new vehicle called Water Ladder + 9m
    s    o this vehicle would carry the 9 meter ladder and primarily carries general firefighting Equipment. this responds as a smaller version of an Water Carrier and with say 3 or so Water Ladder + 9m Fire Engines could sub-in as an Water Carrier. Like IRL the 9m ladder is only carried on Pumps, however they have a 1,800 Litre Water Tank, With a booster Tank of a Further 400 Litres.


    Add A New vehicle Called Dual Purpose Ladder

    This carries both the 13.5m Ladder & 9m Ladder and Carries a 2,000 Litre Water Tank. Acts and covers both the two above.

    We don't plan to add micro-additions like this. A pump is a pump at the end of the day and serves a purpose of pumping water. The 13.5m ladder isn't necessarily commonly used and is being dropped on some newer appliances however that doesn't necessarily mean the water tank is any bigger.


    As for the suggestion of having 3 to make up specialist appliances, that also doesn't work. An aerial is an appliance that can reach up to 64m into the air for rescue or firefighting capabilities - it cannot be replaced by 3 13.5m ladders as they're still only 13.5m tall and can't extend over cliffs or over and into buildings.


    A water carrier also carries somewhere between 8,000L and 18,000L and has the benefit of being able to fill appliances or reservoirs and then shuttle water back and forth - 1 appliance is cheaper to run than 3 so this suggestion also does not really work in reality.


    I do however like your creativity and on this and would be interested to see where we could think about going along similar routes in the future. On your idea regarding specialist equipment, we've discussed in the past about having different levels of rescues from rescue pumps to heavy rescue units all the way up to USAR. It's a similar concept to some of your points mentioned here.

    Maybe the LRP would be a good idea. But the Water Ladders would be difficult as some services have different names for trucks. Like the 9m ladder one. Some have 10.5m etc.

    Some areas call trucks Pumps/Pump Ladders. WrL/WrT there are too many variants and would get confusing in game. And the water tank sizes would also vary depending on what the service have ordered.

    My area has LRPs for rural locations. We have I think 2 or 3 Mercedes Sprinters with rear body locker setup and a 4x4 Land Rover for forest fires. then the general Trucks vary in size depending on the location.

    In the main city/towns we have Large Scania Trucks then going into more rural locations we have slightly smaller MAN Trucks.

    Our water carrier is a bulk foam and water carrier so dual purpose.

    Quote from Dsallis1992

    Maybe the LRP would be a good idea. But the Water Ladders would be difficult as some services have different names for trucks. Like the 9m ladder one. Some have 10.5m etc.

    Some areas call trucks Pumps/Pump Ladders. WrL/WrT there are too many variants and would get confusing in game. And the water tank sizes would also vary depending on what the service have ordered.

    My area has LRPs for rural locations. We have I think 2 or 3 Mercedes Sprinters with rear body locker setup and a 4x4 Land Rover for forest fires. then the general Trucks vary in size depending on the location.

    In the main city/towns we have Large Scania Trucks then going into more rural locations we have slightly smaller MAN Trucks.

    Our water carrier is a bulk foam and water carrier so dual purpose.

    As I've said, for this game a pump is a pump so we don't have plans to add each individual type out there. LRPs aren't consistent across services much like all types so the argument of having them doesn't work. Likely an LRP won't be a Land Rover either - that would be an L4P so won't carry rescue equipment. As I've said, we're not interesting in micro-managing each individual unit that each service has.

    If you cant see the difference between all the types then you have no clue what you are talking about

    ill tell you every type of fire engine or appliance and there use.

    Major Rescue Pumps.

    • Rescue Pump - Carries 13.5m & 9m Ladder, Standard Firefighting Equipment, Extraction Equipment. (1,500 Litres Average)
    • Water Ladder - Carries 13.5m Ladder, Standard Firefighting Gear, Search & Rescue Gear. (1,800 Litres Average)
    • Water Tender - Carries 10.5m Ladder, Standard Firefighting Gear, Wildfire Gear. (1,800 Litres Average)
    • Pump - Carries 9m Ladder, Standard Firefighting Gear. (2,000 Litres Average)
    • Pump Ladder - Carries 13.5m Ladder, Standard Firefighting Gear, Extraction Equipment. (1,500 Litres Average)
    • Water Rescue Ladder - Carries 10.5m Ladder, Standard Firefighting Equipment, Water Rescue Equipment. (1,200 Litres Average)
    • CAFS Water Ladder, Water Tender, Rescue Pump - Vehicles Above But With A Foam Tank Instead Of Water (Foam Tanks Very On The Type Of Appliance.

    ^^^^^
    Everything above is an example the different types have different purposes having only one type like the water ladder is just flat out wrong. if people get confused make an index or help file in the game to tell you their purposes otherwise the game you guys think is realistic turns into a non realistic and yes arcade type game. all the other branches of the game have gone full realistic why you refusing the UK branch the right of full realism.

    just personnel experience and i know a lot of collages that play this game and they say they dislike it due to it being non realistic. So for UK firefighters IRL like myself PLEASE MAKE IT REALISTIC. the person who is advising you on the appliances has no clue what they are doing and if they cant tell the difference between a WrL or Wrt, RP or HRP, RSU or RT, WRL or WRU, ICU 1 or ICU 2 so if they don't or cant tell the difference then its obvious that the game will never be realistic. I know others feel the same way.

    water is a thing that wont be looked into and foam is somthing tacerfan is looking into, the mods have stated on many occasions at the end of the day a pump is a pump and their are more pressing/wanted stuff then this such as police updates, usar, pods, sort all that stuff so these probally wont happen.

    Quote from Gooochy

    water is a thing that wont be looked into and foam is somthing tacerfan is looking into, the mods have stated on many occasions at the end of the day a pump is a pump and their are more pressing/wanted stuff then this such as police updates, usar, pods, sort all that stuff so these probally wont happen.

    agreed however in the future as like say one gets added in-between updates or as content filler it would be good but im saying is the system that the mods are saying a pump is a pump is flawed as hell. like this is like a wish list if anything

    The game will slowly develop to have more realism but just now the current fire appliance provision is good enough to get a very basic set up.


    You have to remember that some areas call their appliances different things.


    Here in Scotland when we went from the regional brigades/services to the national service back in 2012 the service had many appliances with differing names but same job.


    You need to accept the fact that the game has to cover the wide variety of appliances in the UK but is limited in how they can do this without basically repeating some units and their uses.


    Now yes in the real world Ladder length and water are an issue however transfer that over to the game it would become problematic.


    Firstly as I've said before about water supply in UK is for the best part unlimited due to hydrant supply and large enough local bodies of water that can be drawn from even if it includes damming up a small stream.


    Yes there are cases where supply can be limited and it is ferried in tankers it a relay is set up but for the interests of the game and ease of the games mechanics as setting up a realistic water system for the UK would be very resource intensive.


    As to Ladder length, this factor is not majorly an issue for the game or in real life. There will always be a selection of ladders avaliable to an incident. This sort of detail is down a road that is to be fair far to realistic for the game. As each service has different standard for what their appliances have, yes there is some standerdisation across them but not fully.


    As to other stowed equipment on appliances this can also vary widely throughout the country depending on the area, even in Scotland where standardisation has been done with the national service there are still some equipment differences depending on location. For example my local station has a Rescue Pump but on it there is a huge variety of equipment including extraction, s&r and basic wild fire kit. Reason for that it is a station with a mixed range of calls even the water Ladder has a mix of kit to cover.


    As where inner city stations Rescue Pump drop the wild fire kit and s&r to have more extraction and access kit. With the wild fire kit put on other engines.


    In game this unit diversity is not needed.


    If you want to simulate it though you can by using custom categories and setting up custom AARR. You can name the units as you wish and use the icon you wish. This would give you the realism you crave and also help the game remain to be easy to use for all.


    What you are suggesting would make it difficult for players with no experience of how the services operate. This is why it is important for the game to have a basic approach to units and not have major repetition of uses.

    Quote from jrdaaggy2002

    just personnel experience and i know a lot of collages that play this game and they say they dislike it due to it being non realistic. So for UK firefighters IRL like myself PLEASE MAKE IT REALISTIC

    Mmhm, I'm sure they do, mhm.


    Water, ladders, equipment...none of it is simulated in this game and these additions would make no difference whatsoever as everybody here has already pointed out to you.

    To say that we are advising wrong quite frankly is rude.

    Water capacity will NOT be added in its current form as it is not fit for purpose and cant simulate open water sources and hydrants. Because of this there is no point having different types of vehicles. Saying that however, the tank size on a pump whilst it does vary, doesn't often vary in terms of what a particular service uses in terms of WRL's and Rescue Pumps. These designations would more often than not correlate to the equipment that is carried such as less lengths of hose and more enhanced rescue capability. You may find less tank capacity on a smaller vehicle such as an LRP or a Compact pump but it depends what the service added.

    Ladders also are not counted in game so doesn't make a difference what is carried on the top. We are not going to make differences to every single bit of kit because each services specs their vehicles differently depending on service requirements.

    CAFS is rarely found as a standalone vehicle, having spent ages trawling through the majority of services in the UK i can not find a vehicle which is purely a CAFS pump. Foam however is something we want to add for certain calls but (at first at least) will probably done in terms of bulk foam only.

    As for all of your other points about different kinds of vehicle, as we are not specifying specific types of equipment (we would have to add too many types of variants) we will be sticking to what we have with the WRL, L4P, and RP at this time. You can rename your vehicles to fit your local service.

    RT and RSU are again the same thing just a different name, this is heavily documented and can also have different names such as RSV, HRT, SRU or HRSU.

    WRL and WRU are obvious because one is a pump and one is a water rescue van.

    By ICU 1 and ICU 2 im guessing you mean ICU's and CSU's. This was the old system when the New Dimensions was implemented. They brought into service Enhanced command units, however, these no longer exist in their original form and by implementing this system you would leave giant parts of the country without the needed coverage.

    We need to make this game work for all players whether they know the real service inside out or not, and also to tailor for as many places in the UK as possible.



    Quote from Gooochy

    water is a thing that wont be looked into and foam is somthing tacerfan is looking into, the mods have stated on many occasions at the end of the day a pump is a pump and their are more pressing/wanted stuff then this such as police updates, usar, pods, sort all that stuff so these probally wont happen.

    Correct


    Correct

    Quote from jrdaaggy2002

    agreed however in the future as like say one gets added in-between updates or as content filler it would be good but im saying is the system that the mods are saying a pump is a pump is flawed as hell. like this is like a wish list if anything

    if you really have an issue with TACRfan, you should pm him directly, posting in a forum is bad form.



    And personally i think TACRfan and all the moderators and others in various roles, do a great job of sending info to the devs and keep us informed

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